December 19, 2011

Bus Stop Evaluation Program: #30 Soulard

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The MetroBus stop evaluation program continues with the #30 Soulard MetroBus route.

Please note: This route is not being eliminated, but your feedback on specific stops is encouraged and greatly appreciated. Below is the new list of proposed bus stops under consideration for removal from the following route:

#30 Soulard

These stops are being proposed for elimination as part of Metro’s Bus Stop Evaluation Program to make the system more efficient, faster and allow for more improvements to existing bus stops.

Please submit your comments for the #30 Soulard before Monday, January 9, 2012.

Please submit your comments for the #40 Broadway and the #34 Earth City before Tuesday, January 3, 2012.

Please submit your comments for the #98 Chesterfield Hanley and the #174X Halls Ferry Express before Tuesday, January 3, 2012.

Please submit your comments for the #35 Rock Road and the #58X Twin Oaks Express by Monday, December 26, 2011.

NS – Nearside of the street-before you cross the street
FS – Farside of the street-after you cross the street
MB – Midblock after the street midway down

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37 thoughts on “Bus Stop Evaluation Program: #30 Soulard”

  1. Mike Baldwin says:

    I use the 30 a lot. None of these stop removals would be objectionable to me, personally. Though, in the future, it would help to show them on a map so I don’t have to keep checking google for the locations. took me about an hour to look at each stop on a map.

    1. Courtney says:

      Thanks for your feedback Mike. And thankfully, the program is almost over, and we will keep the map application in mind. 🙂

  2. Joe Frank says:

    Is there any chance of adding a stop on the #30 at Chippewa and River Des Peres or at Weil and River Des Peres? This could be accomplished by relocating the current #11/17 stop on the Weil Avenue ramp next to Shop N Save, instead to the corner of Weil and River Des Peres, NS. This would maintain access to Shop N Save, add it for #30 riders, and provide easier access to the nearby apartment complexes for ADA customers in particular.

    The ramp configuration in this area is confusing, but I am pretty sure there are no stops on the #30 in this stretch in either direction. The only stops are at the Shrewsbury MetroLink station and then at McCausland and Chippewa. That’s a gap of 3/4-mile.

    1. Courtney says:

      Joe, the stop that is currently on Wiel in under the Freedom Grant stops to be made ADA accessible. There is a right hand turn lane on River Des Peres onto Wiel, so we would not be unable to put a stop there. There are too many curves to try to put a stop on River Des Peres before Weil. You are correct, there are not any stops on River Des Peres for the #30 Soulard. Apparently, we could not put one a stop on Chippewa at River Des Peres, as cars are turning right from ramp onto Chippewa. That is why the stop is at McCauland for the bus to be out of harms way for a possible rear end accident. Hope this answers your question!

  3. Erik says:

    The Arsenal at 59th Street stop (Southbound) is the only stop on the NS of Hampton that allows for foot traffic for more than a block south of Arsenal. Dalton, Parc Ridge, Lavender, Harlequin — they all dead-end or loop around. The only way for foot traffic to go south for more than a block on Arsenal between Sublette and Hampton is this 59th street stop.

    Considering how the Hampton & Arsenal intersection does not have a well-defined crosswalk or walk signals and limited visibility of oncoming traffic from the North, that is not an attractive intersection to cross.

    Then, there’s the personal opinion:

    Removing that stop means that I have to get off an extra block early (I already have a 4-block walk home, and this would make it 5), or try to cross crazy Hampton during rush hour to get home if I’m dropped off on the FS of Arsenal at Hampton.

    Thanks for taking our comments!

    1. Courtney says:

      Erik, here is the comment from Linda in our planning department: The stops that are on Arsenal between Hampton and Sublette are:
      On south side of Arsenal:
      Hampton fs
      Dalton ns
      Removing January
      Sublette ns
      There is not a 59th St stop

      On the north side of Arsenal:
      Sublette ns
      Removing January
      Dalton fs
      Removing 59th St
      Hampton fs

      Dalton would be this person closest stop. They do not have to go to Hampton. Where are they getting on the south side now? There is not a stop at 59th, and hasn’t been for over 2 years.


      Erik, does this answer your question? Would Dalton be a reasonable stop for you? Where are you getting on the south side now?

    2. Courtney says:

      Erik, according to planning, we are going to keep Arsenal and 59th St. It will only be in westbound direction. Thanks for your feedback!

  4. Erik says:

    I would also suggest adding an additional stop Southbound on the near side of Grand. There is already a de-facto stop there anyway, as every time someone signals for a stop, the driver asks, “Do you want this side or the other side of the street?”

    1. Courtney says:

      Erik, do you mean on the east side of Grand?

  5. Tim says:

    The south city needs a tourist bus that accepts day and special passes only. The tourist loop should connect the Landing / union station/lafayette square/soulard/brewery/benton park/cherokee/south grand/tower grove/mobot/hill/grove/forest park/euclid/lindell/grand center/midtown alley/wash ave/post office/arch. This route can actually create new revenue for Metro from visitors.

  6. E says:

    I use the stop at Arsenal and Alfred frequently. I realize that I have a personal bias toward keeping my bus stop. That being said, Alfred runs six blocks south without a closer East-West route, so people are potentially walking quite some ways already. (The Maury stop, I can more easily understand eliminating as the furthest South people would be walking is a block and a half, so adding one extra block isn’t that significant.) Especially after dark, I also feel that frequent stops are important for the safety and comfort of your passengers. If a stop is frequently utilized, I feel it should stay. (Presumably, the purpose of the engagement process is to see which stops ARE being utilized?)

    1. Courtney says:

      E, planning went and looked at Arsenal and Alfred. The reason we were going to remove it was because there was not a mirrored stop, meaning one across from it. There is a stop about 200’ to the west of Alfred that is a mirrored stop for Portis. I will go ahead and keep the eastbound stop at Alfred to accommodate your stop. Thanks!

  7. RTBones says:

    @Tim –

    First, let’s have Metro sort out the buses it HAS before thinking of new service – they are having a hard enough time doing that. Second, there are LOTS of other things I would rather Metro address before they thought of adding this ‘service.’ Third, please, no…just…no The last thing we need is another ridiculous (IMO) painted bus. They do not attract tourists, they just make us look like a cow town to outsiders. You won’t get ‘locals’ to come in and ride them (local meaning St. Louis county , West and South county) – they don’t do it now. Another bus like this will not change that. Right, wrong, or otherwise – buses like this do NOT work. Nothing in particular wrong with your routing, but please do not make it a ‘tourist’ bus. The money is better spent elsewhere.

  8. Anjana says:

    I used to use the 30 when I worked at Anheuser Busch. I would get off at Lynch and 7th, and sometimes used to get out at Bread Co at 7th and Russel as well. It looks like those stops are in danger, and that’s good. There are plenty of AB people who claim that they will one day take the bus, and some who actually do, who use those stops.
    I believe that there are several AB workers who also use the stop on 7th between Aresenal and Dorcas, as well as at Aresenal and 9th (which may be close enough to Arsenal and Busch place that only one of those is needed).

    The 30 is the only way back uptown for several people in that area, unless that want to go back North to the downtown / Civic Center area, which isn’t always as direct. When it taking it back uptown, I used it to connect to the 90 at Hampton.

    Along Aresenal, the bus is very slow, definitely with more stops than necessary. So I fully endorse the appropriateness of evaluating the stops along Arsenal.

  9. Erik says:

    Sorry if I created confusion.

    Yeah, the East side of Grand, from what I can tell doesn’t have a stop for the Southbound #30, so the driver usually just asks “What side do you want?” when someone pulls the signal. It’s become a de-facto stop.

    As for the Arsenal and 59th issue:

    I am referring to the stop on the North side of the street that is served by the #30 southbound. If you take a look at the map, if you need to walk South from Arsenal, you have to walk to 59th street because Dalton dead-ends, as do all the other streets between Sublette and Hampton.

    My driver actually missed my stop at 59th street on Monday and dropped me off on the West side of Hampton. It added a full 5 minutes to my trip because I had to wait for a break in traffic to get back across Hampton to get home.

    While that may be a minor inconvenience to me, imagine the frustration that could come from getting dropped off on the West side of Hampton and trying to cross back to the East side to catch the #90 Northbound before you miss it.

    Riders on the Southbound getting dropped off at Dalton would have to walk 2 blocks to catch the 90 Northbound, or get dropped off on the East side of Hampton and hope that traffic lets up enough for them to get across to make their connection.

    In the mornings I take the #90, but if I miss it, I just take the #30 from the East side of Hampton to head downtown. It’s not ideal, but it works.

  10. Mary Stahl says:

    I noticed signs posted on both of my stops, northbound and southbound. I did call in about this, but am posting here too. Both of these stops have been around for as long as I can remember, going back to the Lindenwood, which I used to ride as a child with my mother.
    The northbound stop is at Hancock and the southbound stop is at Maurice.
    I am almost 70 years old, working downtown daily and it will be harder for me to walk another couple of blocks to the next bus stop, especially in bad weather. Last year with all the snow and ice, I only had to walk up my street to Watson and the stops were right there, now I’d have to walk that much farther and risk falling down and at my age, that is a concern.
    Also, on the northbound stop, there is a retaining wall at a business where I can sit down and rest as I wait for the bus, but at the stop I would have to go to, there is nothing and I’d have to stand there and wait. That’s important when you get older too, because I have to walk almost 2 blocks to the bus stop and I don’t need to be going any farther if I don’t have to.
    So I ask that you consider keeping the stops at Hancock north and Maurice south. There are other people that do use these stops, I have told them and hopefully they will contact you also.
    The drivers seemed to be unaware of the whole situation and said they don’t have a problem with making the stop, it doesn’t make that much difference in time to them at that point in the route. For the northbound, he’s just starting out and on the southbound, he’s almost at the end, maybe in the middle of the route, it might make a difference.
    This change is supposed to help the passengers, but it will only hinder me, who is an elderly passenger and we are supposed to be considered when changes like that are taking place. And both of these stops are in an open area where the driver can easily pull in to the curb. If I have to use Fyler or Marquette, both stops are by parked cars, close to the corner and they cannot easily pull in to the stop and I’d have to be boarding in the street, which makes it harder to step up on the bus.

    Thank you

    1. Courtney says:

      Mary, thank you very much for your feedback. I will let the planning department know your comments, and will get you a response. Thanks!

    2. Courtney says:

      Mary, I talked to planning and they will keep both stops for you. Thank you very much for your feedback!

  11. aaron says:

    i ride the #30 daily from Lemp to Kingshighway in the morning, and back in the evening. I’ve always thought there were WAY too many stops between Kingshighway/Grand and Jefferson/Lemp. From the list here, it looks like the area between Kingshighway/Grand is being addressed, and even though they aren’t on this list, i’ve seen stickers on signs between Jefferson/Lemp indicating that those stops are up for removal (i’m wondering why they didn’t make the published list). I look forward to a more efficient bus ride, without stopping 3 times in a 4 block stretch.

  12. aaron says:

    scratch that, i went and looked back at the list and see arsenal/mcnair (between jefferson/lemp). i do think there is at least 1 more stop along benton park that could be removed, there are currently 3: just east of jefferson, right in the middle of the park, and then the mcnair stop slated for removal. and yes, i have been on a #30 that had to stop at ALL 3 stops before.

  13. mike says:


    How are you doing?

    Retaining most of these stops slated for removal may not seem to be necessary for some people and Metro, but to citizens like Mary Stahl who depend on them due to physical and safety reasons, they are vital.

    Out of curiousity, are there any homes or businesses located across the street from the stops at the Benton Park locations that you mentioned? There may be people like Mary Stahl who may be using those stops. Keep in mind, parks aren’t the safest places to walk along, including getting to a bus stop, especially at night.

    To healthy individuals like you and me, walking an extra block or two is no big deal. But there are people out there who are more vulnerable to the elements as well as the environment, whose well being depends on having these seemingly unimportant/redundant stops available.

    1. Courtney says:

      Mike and Aaron,

      I used to use the McNair/Arsenal stop on the #30, and from my experience, it was rarely used and difficult to see for bus drivers. Often, I would have to step into the road to see the bus because cars were often parked nearby. It’s also a poorly lit couple of bus stops. There are a couple of small businesses, firms, and a few residences, but people more commonly used the Cherokee/Lemp stop, or one near Jefferson that had a bench.

  14. mike says:


    Happy Holidays to you and yours, and also to the rest of your staff at Metro,

    My first question after the holiday: Is notification of due process for stops slated for removal being posted elsewhere, other than the bus stops to be removed and on the web site? There may be people who don’t have access to the web site, who may not know how or where to respond with their concerns.

    1. Courtney says:

      Currently, the listings are available on the blog, on the stops themselves, and through Customer Service if inquired. Happy Holidays to you as well!

  15. mike says:


    I totally agree to removing or not placing stops that may pose a safety hazard. A good example that you provided in your previous post was placing stops along curves and close to ramps. Motorists often may be blind-sided by these potential obstacles, especially if they are not paying close attention while driving.

  16. Wendy M says:

    Since the reroute of the #8 Morganford bus, I was forced to catch the #30 Soulard to and from work. That was already one inconvenience and know Metro wants to make another inconvenience for the people that uses both these bus stops by removing both the North & Southbound bus stops from the corner of Arsenal & Bent. There are many people that uses these stops daily and having to walk to Arsenal & Oak Hill or Arsenal & Morganford is a very long walk. The streets between Arsenal & Grand to Arsenal & Morganford are long. At least, if someone misses their bus at Arsenal & Morganford/Oak Hill, they can catch it at Arsenal & Bent. But if they miss it @ Arsenal & Morganford/Oak Hill, it’s a 100% guarnatee that they are NOT gonna make it to the next bus stop because that’s a long stretch between Oak Hill & Morganford. With the bus stop @ Bent, they’ll most likely be able to make it. As far as I’m concern, they can remove the bus stop from Arsenal & Oak Hill, Arsenal & Roger and Arsenal & Spring because their never no one at them bus stops going North Bound and from Arsenal & Maury going Southbound.

    1. Courtney says:

      Wendy, we heard from you and another customer and we will be keeping the stop at Arsenal and Bent. Thanks so much for your feedback!

  17. Wendy M says:

    Thank you!

  18. mike says:


    Are notices of proposal to remove these stops being posted on the buses and trains; also, are the proposals being published in the newspapers? This is just to ensure citizens are adequately informed of these proposals, and they don’t end up being caught off guard if these stops are removed. Sufficient notice will give those affected time to come up with a “Plan B” if needed.

    1. Courtney says:

      Mike, no we currently do not list the evaluated stop in the newspaper or other third-party media, or on the buses (out of cost consideration for printing), and while the program is almost complete, it is a good thought for better public notice in the future. Thanks, and Happy New Year!

  19. Mary S says:

    Just wanted to publicly thank Courtney for addressing my concerns about the removal of the bus stops I use on Watson. She sent me e-mail and I see it also listed here that she talked to planning and they will keep the stops that I was concerned about losing. I told her that another person that uses my stop is a high school student and she didn’t need to be walking any farther than necessary, especially since it’s still dark when she comes up to the bus stop. This shows that Metro does listen to its’ customers and addresses our concerns.

  20. mike says:


    Thanks for your feedback. Happy New Years to you and your staff!

  21. a says:

    The stops on 13th at Madison and Monroe are the only ones remotely close to my home. I rely on the 30 to get to school and work. Cutting one wouldnt do much harm, but both would be devastating.

    1. Courtney says:

      A, the planning department tells me there is a stop at 13th and Clinton, in between the Madison and Monroe stops. Would that stop work for you?

  22. N says:

    I use the #30 quite often and particularly the stops close to Kingshighway and Arsenal. It is nice to have the frequent stops along Arsenal, but if there is one that should be eliminated I would vote for Maury, both in the South and North direction. The stop that I use the most is the Lackland, South direction and would love if that one stayed.

    Thanks for taking the comments into consideration.

  23. Eddie says:

    Regarding the stretch between Kingshighway and Morganford:
    There is a crosswalk at Lackland and Arsenal and it is 3 blocks from Kingshighway and 4 blocks from Morganford. There is a southbound stop here, but the northbound stops are at Maury and Portis. It makes sense to me, to add a northbound stop at Lackland and remove the northbound stop at Portis. Then these could also be removed: northbound at Maury and Portis; southbound at Maury and Portis. The Alfred southbound stop is only 1 block from the Morganford stop, so it could be removed also.

  24. Beenie says:

    Scheduling the #91 every 30 minutes, as opposed to the 20 minute 40 minute current schedule (weekday non-peak), would be much more rider friendly. The #2 runs every 30 minutes to better serve Wash U and its’ riders where the #91 does not serve the riders best interest!

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